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u/SpicyTamarin Dec 19 '22
I feel like more people need to acknowledge that planned parenthood establishments do more than just abortions. They provide other services that are very important to women's Healthcare.
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u/Leigh___ Dec 19 '22 •
And the fact that churches are a preference, where's healthcare can literally be life or death. And I'm a Christian. You don't have to go to church to be a Christian or follow the word, but you can't perform medical procedures on yourself.. The fact that these things have to be explained, is mind blowing.
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u/GrandmasterTactician Dec 20 '22 •
We need way more Christians like you man. I mean that with the kindest intent possible
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u/Leigh___ Dec 20 '22
Thanks dude! 🥹
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u/dennismfrancisart Dec 20 '22
Fellow Christian here. I'm always amazed that they picked abortion to cling to instead of something that is actually in the 10 Commandments. I guess, adultery, false testimony, stealing, and even murder aren't bad enough sins to get concerned about.
When actual kids get murdered, it's just thoughts and prayers.
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u/MiaLba Dec 20 '22
Sounds like my mil, super hardcore anti abortionist yet cheated on her husband with two different men. Crazy how hypocritical they are.
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u/Jeramus Dec 20 '22
It's far easier to advocate for the unborn than deal with "sins" in yourself or your community.
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u/StuTim Dec 20 '22
Fetuses are convenient. They can't open their mouth to make you look bad. They can't break the law. There's really no downside.
Once someone is born, though, things can go bad.
If you look at the history of when and why a lot of non-Catholic Christians started becoming "pro-life" till learn it was because of desegregation. A lot of Christians supported Roe v Wade. They believed life started at first breath, not at conception.
Long story short, the government went after Christian schools that refused to desegregate. They got mad at the government. Republicans saw this and figured they can use it to get a solid voting group, channeled that anger into abortion and now we have what we have today.
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u/LegalAssassin13 Dec 20 '22
Just to play devil’s advocate, pro-life people consider abortion to be murder. So to them, it is against the Ten Commandments.
That being said, it’s strange that they are also super against birth control. And it’s especially strange that they’re against healthcare for all, paid parental leave, and programs like WIC, considering that those are all important for pregnancy and beyond.
I’d say that it’s like they don’t actually care about the unborn aside from scoring morality points, but that would be crazy-talk, wouldn’t it?
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u/dennismfrancisart Dec 20 '22
They are “pro-life” except when it’s actual life. Yahweh , according to the Israelites gives us the breath of life. That breath comes at birth. They have no outrage when kids get killed by guns, disease or starvation. Then it’s God’s will. They even invented the Devil to have a scapegoat to hide behind when they make bad decisions. I’ve challenged fellow Christians on whether they choose to follow the Talmudic laws or not. There is no law against abortion in the Bible. In fact, you can be absolved for killing your kids if they disobey you or strike you. The true history of antiabortion is about control. When I mention the horrendous rates of miscarriages they have nothing to say. Thoughts and prayers.
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u/Jeramus Dec 20 '22
People do perform medical procedures on themselves when desperate and the results are often tragic. Abortions should be available from qualified professionals.
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u/CommanderSquirt Dec 19 '22
planned parenthood
I'm a dude and I went there during college for physicals, an STD test, and free condoms. Telling this to people who think PP is bad just confuses them until they reply with something like "but abortion".
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u/New-Cookie-7537 Dec 20 '22
I went there as a virgin (because religion), but I’d been going to hospitals for three years with no answer. PP found my endometriosis and helped me manage it.
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u/schudermcgavin Dec 19 '22
They're also not women specific. I volunteered for a clinic and when I suggested to my superior we could send some of our male clients there for a cheap alternative option for healthcare, they were like "why would we send them to a clinic for women?" So many people assume it's only for women, or only in regards to abortion.
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u/xAshev Dec 19 '22 edited Dec 19 '22
Give the americans lawmakers a couple more decades before they catch up with that mentality. As always, they are way the fuck behind.
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u/WorldlyBarber215 Dec 20 '22
My sorry I do not American politician will check up. Not when large group buy them with donations. I am an American. Just tired of bought lawmakers
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u/Art_Class Dec 20 '22
I got sti tested there for like $50 and am a man. Planned parenthood is healthcare.
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u/CocoCarly60 Dec 19 '22
That would take away from calling all women whores that use abortion as birth control though. Where's the fun in that? /s
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u/WorldlyBarber215 Dec 20 '22
Woman that non -viable pregnancies are send to abortion clinic. Women who can not care a baby to term with out dying are send to abortion clinics. Young girls who are pregnant from rape are send to abortion clinic. I also think the fetus should be DNA tested and the man should be billed by the state and his name made public, this would stop your "whore" abortions.
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u/New-Cookie-7537 Dec 20 '22
Don’t use logic on them. It confuses them.
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u/WorldlyBarber215 Jan 03 '23
I know but add a calm teacher voice they just shut down.
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u/SolquidDiarrhea Dec 20 '22
I mean the people against abortion are probably also against all of the other services they provide.
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u/Ephemeral_Wolf Dec 20 '22
important to women's Healthcare.
Yeah, but who cares about that shit? /s
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u/Jkarno Dec 20 '22
I'm still convinced the origins of it are massively racist, Margaret Sanger wanted to basically eradicate blacks via abortion..
She was very much into eugenics.. quite fucked up
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u/DavisAZ0414 Dec 20 '22
You are all clueless if you guys think PP is out there for the good of minorities and women. If you dig and do more research, they’re all about making minorities go away. They hate African Americans and Hispanics. I’m not talking at the clinic level, I’m talking at the top. Their whole goal is to eradicate minorities. Abortion is murder, end of story. Any way you slice it, you’re killing a living heartbeat that is more alive than any other organism on this planet. Only God has the right to take away life…we don’t.
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u/Original_Athrel Dec 20 '22
You don't need planned parenthood then. There are pregnancy centers in plenty of cities helping mothers. The only thing planned parenthood adds is abortion.
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u/deadmelo Dec 20 '22
Maybe you guys should lead with that, instead of constantly bumping heads with religious ppl on the debate of what is considered life.
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u/mermicide Dec 19 '22
While I am pro-choice, this is honestly a bullshit argument. Most of them don’t provide any pre-natal services, for instance, even though it’s advertised on their location sites. Plenty of examples online of people legitimately looking for prenatal care at PP only to have the phone operator become confused and trying to confirm an abortion appointment for them.
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u/Jesperstarr Dec 19 '22
Source?
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u/mermicide Dec 19 '22 edited Dec 19 '22
Lookup “Perverse Incentive” on Wikipedia - tons of examples. One example of a case from gun buybacks in NY: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/11/new-york-gun-buyback-rules-3d-printed-parts
EDIT: Put the wrong reply in this thread. Here’s the link to the video I mentioned: https://youtu.be/ekgiScr364Y — It can be misleading. Snopes did a check on it and showed that PP doesn’t advertise prenatal care at all of its locations, but in fact only about 3% of their locations offer it. Link: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/planned-parenthood-prenatal-care/
Like I said in my OG comment, most PPs are specifically there for abortion and birth control. Nothing wrong with that, women need a place that’s safe and judgment free for the procedure should they choose to have it, but let’s not pretend that PP is much more than an abortion clinic
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u/Jesperstarr Dec 19 '22
I looked at your ‘sources’ and there are zero examples of this happening
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u/mermicide Dec 19 '22
Oops sorry, didn’t read my OG comment and thought this was in response to another… hold on, I’ll look for it for the PP one
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u/SharMarali Dec 20 '22
let’s not pretend that PP is much more than an abortion clinic
So in your view, having safe, affordable access to pelvic exams, pap smears, birth control, and STI screening in low-income neighborhoods where people may not otherwise be able to access these services is "basically just an abortion clinic?"
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u/brutalistsnowflake Dec 20 '22
This is a man who knows nothing about womens health care. Do not take him seriously.
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u/NotClever Dec 20 '22
Do you know what "prenatal care" is? It's pretty specifically checkups for pregnant women.
I ask because your logic seems to be "PP barely offers any prenatal care, therefore it's pretty much nothing but an abortion clinic", which seems to be discounting well woman exams, STD testing, and all other services that they provide.
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u/brutalistsnowflake Dec 20 '22
They also do exams and reproductive health care. You may not know this but if you're a woman of childbearing age, your physical exams are mostly about pap smears, birth control, and breast exams. Sure they check blood pressure and if you bring up something they'll look into it, but that's about it. PP does this.
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u/SharMarali Dec 20 '22
I went to Planned Parenthood for a couple of years for my annual pelvic exam and birth control pills/shot a long time ago when I didn't have such good insurance. I knew plenty of other women who went for that reason too. It was in a low-income area, so a lot of women would have gone without annual exams without Planned Parenthood. I don't know whether they offered pre-natal exams or not, but there are also other vital services for women's health besides pre-natal exams. Women aren't just baby factories, our parts need looking after whether we're actively pregnant or not.
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u/Psychojakkrabbit Dec 20 '22
Love how the same people who cry about abortion are the same ones opposed to any policies that benefits mothers, families, and the kids they cry about.
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u/Best_Algae2346 Dec 20 '22
Not only that but they are against abortions AND against birth control. https://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/blog/82-employers-who-want-deny-birth-control-coverage
Under his eye.
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u/TemetNosce85 Dec 20 '22
That's because it's not about the child, it's about punishing women and poor people for having sex. To them, it's not actually a baby, it's an 18 year prison sentence for being a "slut". That "baby" is your responsibility now, not theirs, so now you have to take pity on the poor taxpayer who is the actual victim in this story and not on the people who have been wrongfully sentenced to parenthood.
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u/danstewart42 Dec 19 '22
Especially when 600000 babies aren’t actually babies..
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u/lefluffle Dec 20 '22 edited Dec 20 '22
I feel like many pro-lifers have simply committed to this form of misinformed virtue-signaling and now they can't back down because it would make them look dumb.
Edit: changed uninformed to misinformed
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u/Icywarhammer500 Dec 20 '22
Many times I’ve done this with other things and instead choose to switch to trolling instead of conceding because I know the other person is going to be a dick about it.
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u/Andyyougoonieee Dec 20 '22
What is it then?
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u/Beddybye Dec 20 '22
Tell me, if you stepped on an acorn, would you tell someone that you stepped on an oak tree?
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u/Andyyougoonieee Dec 20 '22
Tell me, if you didn’t step on the acorn, would it become an oak tree?
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u/nuts4k9s Dec 20 '22
A non-sentient zygote or embryo that can fit in a petri dish. Less than 1% of abortions happen after this point, to fetuses, when, for example, its skull or brain didn't develop and will die painfully and slowly
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Dec 20 '22
Misinformed virtue signaling?
I mean, whatever they’re doing it’s not virtue signaling. They believe life starts at conception, and there’s even some science to back this up. Most pro life people are defending life, and since when is defending life virtue signaling? You defending a mother’s right to choose could be interpreted the same way. Debate it as you will, but accusing them of virtue signaling is silly and unfair, and also dilutes what virtue signaling means to begin with.
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u/chaelland Dec 20 '22
If they were actually for protecting life they would be adopting children in the system. They would be raising money and donating money to causes that help children grow and become people. But instead they attack someone for a personal choice.
So yes claiming that life is so precious in the womb is virtue signaling because once it comes out the womb 98% of pro lifers do not care.
If they actually cared they wouldn’t hand wave away when politicians of their party are accused of not only paying for abortions but coercing women to get them.
Thirdly if they care about life then they would be pro choice, planned parenthood clinics and other like clinics and help reduce teen pregnancy and reduce the number of abortions.
But instead they tear down the very institutions made to help those lives prosper.
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u/lefluffle Dec 20 '22
I think nymh123 meant that some of them aren't virtue signaling because they truly believe they're protecting life. That's fine, I agree with that. Virtue signaling is reserved for people who superficially align themselves with a cause for only selfish reasons.
But it's a very fine line, isn't it? Like you said, many of these pro-lifers are SO close to the truth yet they're closing their eyes and ears to it so that they don't have to change their opinion because it would mean they'd actually have to do something about it. So maybe they're partially virtue signaling to themselves, partially just being human by being lazy. Who knows.
I know that I'm lazy about things I care about too, like climate change. I don't always spend the extra time to use a non-disposable container. That doesn't mean I'm virtue signaling. Just inconsistent.
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u/lefluffle Dec 20 '22 edited Dec 20 '22
I said many... Not all. Because yes you're right that some of them truly want what's best for mom or child. That being said, I don't agree that forcing a disadvantaged fertilized egg to term or forcing a mom to die by sacrificing her life for an already-dying/dead fetus is the best for the mom and child.
But not everyone who is against abortion has good intentions. That was my point. Some of them don't really care about moms and children, they just say they're against abortion to jump on the conservative bandwagon for clout, belonging, or whatever else, with no concern that anti-abortion practices harm more people than they help. You don't have to defend these people, they're not the ones you're referring to and they couldn't care less about you. Feel free to defend good-intentioned people but I wasn't originally referring to them anyway.
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u/UFO-seeker1985 Dec 20 '22
I grew up I catholic schools for 16 years since before elementary school, I learned that god is everywhere so why these people need a church to pray? To learn how to behave? If you are a true believer, you understand your soul is link to a higher energy, not a priest preaching to you.
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u/IM_A_WOMAN Dec 20 '22
As a pastor in one of the biggest churches in the biggest country on the largest planet in the hugest solar system, I can explain this for you.
Because it's easier to hear your prayers if you focus them from a church. Also, God will hear your prayers more if you donate more money to the church, we're shaming God by having last year's mercedes in the driveway.
A true Christian would give up everything for God, right? So buy me a plane.
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u/Takeonlyone Dec 19 '22
Yet we never hear how natural childbirth harms the baby; neonatal birth trauma', birth injury to a newborn baby can include many things, from bruising to nerve damage to a broken bone. Sometimes an injury occurs as a result of life-saving procedures.
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u/purplegladys2022 Dec 19 '22
Considering how the vast majority of aborted fetuses are smaller than a chewed off pinky nail, they aren't going to argue much.
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u/Forbiddentemptations Dec 20 '22
I’m a guy and planned parenthood used to be where I’d go for std testing. Thank you planned parenthood for all that you do.
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u/doggobooper4 Dec 19 '22
It's kinda hilarious yet gross how people think abortion in fact is not healthcare or a right, you can be anti abortion but to use these terms is delusional.
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u/Chomp-Rock Dec 19 '22
Depends where you are, but in places where intelligence prevails, it is both of those things.
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u/HowTheGoodNamesTaken Dec 20 '22
Idk if it necessarily deserves to be a right, but it is important to have available.
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u/rowanblaze Dec 20 '22
It's not the right to abortion, but the right to bodily autonomy.
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u/IM_A_WOMAN Dec 20 '22
How am I supposed to know what to do with my body if the old white men don't tell me?
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u/HowTheGoodNamesTaken Dec 20 '22
I feel like that's part of a right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
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u/LegitDuctTape Dec 20 '22
It's as much of a right as your autonomy to not be forced to have your blood or tissue harvested against your will for the sake of another
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u/HowTheGoodNamesTaken Dec 20 '22
I mean yeah but that doesn't need to be exactly specified as a "right". That's all I'm saying
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u/immersemeinnature Dec 19 '22
Where do they get this 600,000 number? I doubt it's accurate but I always see that inflated number.
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u/Hunt3r8806 Dec 20 '22
From the CDC I believe. Most recent I found was a couple years ago, but it was slightly higher than 600k.
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u/billet Dec 20 '22
Lol that’s actually a fucked up response being confronted with a dead baby argument. I’m into it.
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u/Mrs_Gnarly_Artist Dec 19 '22 edited Dec 21 '22
They won't look at the statistics!! How many people die because they couldn't get access to a church?!Obviously priorities and such and such insert eyeroll here /s for extra measure
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u/soundslikeautumn Dec 20 '22
Medical facilities will always be more important than a building designed so grown ass adults can indulge in their made-up fantasies.
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u/Kikujiroo Dec 20 '22
Imagine being in the 21st century, in a developed country where you have access to ample education and information, and still somehow argue that churches are essential.
Go back to the middle age you buffoons.
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u/_Redoubt_ Dec 20 '22
Especially other dead. I can win a debate against as many dead babies as you've got.
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u/dennismfrancisart Dec 20 '22
I still love the "600,000 babies" line. Man, she must have had an aneurism after pulling that one out of her anus.
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u/Westenderson Dec 20 '22
Americans hate Islam, shahira law etc yet they act like this with Christianity wtf. Hypocrites
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u/Yuval_K81 Dec 20 '22
Conservatives: Abortion is murder!
People: Ok, once he's/she's born... Are you going to take care of this baby? Are you going to take him to the doctor? Are you going to pay for everything?
Conservatives: Nope, it's your problem.
People: then why other people choices is your business?
Conservatives: jesus/the bible said so.
People: then take care of those babies lifes, you're pro life right?
Conservatives: just anti abortion, your babies your problem.
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u/Weird-Information-61 Dec 20 '22
If you need a church to worship your god, you're not there for god, you're there for looks.
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u/LPeif Dec 20 '22
The conservative christians are dangerously ignorant. Speak up if you hear their hate filled beliefs.
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u/GillusZG Dec 20 '22
600,000 babies a year would disagree with you.
I don't feel like talking to every republican voters.
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u/Wolfie782 Dec 20 '22
if i see this reposted one more time i’m gonna punt the 600,000th mfr who made the post
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Dec 19 '22
[deleted]
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u/Liiterally Dec 19 '22
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Dec 19 '22
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u/Liiterally Dec 19 '22
Bad faith arguing, strawmanning, trolling and basement dwelling memes doesn’t mean anything either.
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Dec 19 '22
[deleted]
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u/Liiterally Dec 19 '22
The only thing dumb here is your childish attitude and need to insult others so you can feel superior to text on a screen.
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u/Nabedane Dec 19 '22
Holy shit so a link to sources proves nothing to you but a terrible meme does?
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u/Chomp-Rock Dec 19 '22
Depends where you are, but in places where intelligence prevails, it is both of those things.
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u/Prize_Advance3501 Dec 19 '22
places where intelligence prevails,
I like this, people who desperately fight for abortion "rights" are the most irrational ryarded people I've ever met, like with all progressive types. Sorry to respond again.
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u/Prize_Advance3501 Dec 19 '22
No.
Thanks for proving my point, a personal belief like this doesn't equate to intellect, you are cringe and should be escorted to the cuckold asylum where you belong. Lmfao
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u/Chomp-Rock Dec 19 '22
No seriously. In the UK it is a right and health care
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u/Prize_Advance3501 Dec 19 '22
Understandable, however an individual with a bit of intellect could care less what goyish morons think in that shithole of a government.
I have mixed opinions on abortion itself but please, never call it a right or healthcare. Anyone with an IQ over 100 will laugh at you.
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u/Chomp-Rock Dec 19 '22
I don't think you know what a 'right' or 'healthcare' actually are. Don't bother responding I'm not planning to waste any more time or lose any more braincells by conversing with you.
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u/Prize_Advance3501 Dec 19 '22
Everyone knows what those buzzfeed words mean, I'm just stating objectively it isn't a right, or maybe even healthcare.
An example is: Freedom isn't a objective right, the freedom of speech religion isn't an objective right. I am stating facts.
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u/sad_paddington Dec 19 '22
Abortion is a right because people have the right to decide what happens inside their bodies wich is by fact a human right according to the United Nations unless you think everyone there has an iq below 100
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u/Rustyflyntlock Dec 19 '22
You're not stating fuck all until you can learn to construct a cohesive sentence.
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u/lickedTators Dec 19 '22
How is abortion not healthcare? Even assisted suicide is healthcare.
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u/Hooliken Dec 20 '22
Ah yes. Lord of killing babies, and winning that argument. Fucking ignorance.
Disclaimer: Full on pro-choice, within logical reason. Not a fan of abortion as birth control. Adult, or Fuck Off.
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u/Pussywhip92 Dec 20 '22
Correct me if I'm wrong but he's refuting the previous comment by saying 600000 Dead babies (let alone fetuses) have the ability, nay the brain capacity, to make a persuasive argument? What are these people smoking?
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u/not_productive1 Dec 20 '22
Humor is always better when you take it painfully literally, good job.
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u/Switster Dec 20 '22
What about when they grow up?? By aborting the babies your negating their chance of growing up
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u/Ch1L34U Dec 20 '22
Religious upbringing linked to better health and well-being during early adulthood https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/religious-upbringing-adult-health/
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u/Sofa_King_What25 Dec 20 '22
"One limitation of the study is that it consisted mainly of children of white females of relatively high family socioeconomic status, and therefore might not be generalizable to a broader population, though prior research by VanderWeele suggested the effects of religious service attendance for adults may be even larger for black versus white populations. Another limitation was that the study did not look at the influences of parents and peers on adolescents’ religious decisions."
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u/Ch1L34U Dec 20 '22
You wrote it: even that the study were made in white kiddos, the effects are larger in Black pops. In Public Health that is the base of community engage throughout fait based organizations. So, you can generalize through specific ones that is one approach in the USA given its diversity. During the American PH Assoc meeting in Boston this 2022, they inaugural Keynote speaker was a BISHOP. Did we attending a confessional meeting? Could it be an Ayatollah next year? I think polarization is dangerous my friend.
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u/Anxious-Doughnut6141 Dec 19 '22
It's kinda hilarious that people think abortions have anything to do with babies.
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Dec 20 '22
Hahaha… probably the best way to respond tbh. They don’t really want a discussion anyway.
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u/joranbaler Dec 20 '22
Abortion is essential in countries that are above population replacement rate especially for couples that earn less than US$10,000 annually.
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u/reallynotburner Dec 20 '22
Mask up and work the shelters, the orphanages, and the hospitals lile Jesus Commanded. Worship outside, or by Zoom. Jesus said that if two or three are gathered together in His name thay He would be among them and the work would be done. You think Abraham needed a full band, suits and a podium to lean on his staff and worship? These ghouls have cashed in their faith and they got was a lousy Q-Anon T-shirt.
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u/Yeranz Dec 20 '22
They're not actually babies. We'd know if they were actually babies because then the Republicans wouldn't give a shit about them.
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u/ilovebigbuttons Dec 20 '22
Churches are social clubs. I can talk to God anywhere according to the Bible, what do I need a church for?
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u/jwcyranose Dec 20 '22
Young stupid woman. Got it. I was young and stupid! Not unusual but should ignore her ignorance. And her…
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u/Claque-2 Dec 20 '22
I'm sorry, but all reproductive care including abortiins should be handled in a regular healthcare facility. Setting it apart from other hc allows it to be targeted.
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u/WorldlyBarber215 Dec 20 '22
So all the women who go for healthcare are not important. A fat cat living on 10% plus is? Someone needs read the NEW testment, you know the part about Christ.
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u/PM-Me-Your-TitsPlz Dec 19 '22
600,000 dead* babies. That makes the debate an easy slam dunk.