r/melbourne • u/Timetogoout • Mar 04 '23
Are there more posts on r/melbourne these days asking about the increase of crazies in the CBD? The Sky is Falling
I remember the days when I could browse r/melbourne and only see a post every once in a while about the crazies in the CBD. Now when I browse I come across them everyday.
Has anyone else noticed an increase in the number of posts about crazies? Why can't we get social services to do more to help?
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u/ipbannedburneracc Mar 05 '23
I live here so I don't need to check reddit to see how many nutters are in the city. I don't think it's appreciably different from ~2020 onwards, the city ebbs and flows.
People from the suburbs just haven't been in for 2-3 years so they forget what it's like and feel compelled to make a post about it.
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u/Sparky_Buttons Mar 05 '23
People from the suburbs just haven't been in for 2-3 years so they forget what it's like and feel compelled to make a post about it.
For real. I have an outer suburbs workmate who hasn't gone into the city in three years. Say's he is literally afraid to.
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Mar 05 '23
[deleted]
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u/Sparky_Buttons Mar 05 '23
Depends on the suburb I suppose. To be clear he is also afraid of his suburb, he is just more afraid of the city.
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u/tanoshiiki CBD Mar 06 '23
What type of life is this? :(
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u/Sparky_Buttons Mar 06 '23
I dunno. Whenever I tell him I went to the museum to see a new exhibition or went for a walk down to the park he responds as if I told him I was taking a day trip to the DMZ.
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u/clomclom Mar 05 '23
Say's he is literally afraid to.
ššššššš
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u/Embarrassed-Tutor-92 Mar 05 '23
Got a higher chance of getting stabbed in sunshine than Melbourne CBD
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u/oceanicnoise Mar 05 '23
You have a point, but I honestly donāt remember seeing nutters protesting regularly in the CBD pre-COVID and pre-Qanon. Conspiracy theorists have always been around, but they were generally perpetually online loners with very little connection to a real world community. I get the impression that we see them more often in public because now they have a common cause to rally around (and to use as an umbrella for all the other shit they believe in), and they feel validated by the attention the media has given them.
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u/tanoshiiki CBD Mar 05 '23
I've lived in the CBD for pretty much a decade. Unfortunately in some areas, it has gotten worse. But those areas are mostly confined and it's not completely routine. I walked on Eliz St between Flinders Lane and Collins St in the early afternoon today, and I was kind of shocked that there wasn't the usual people hanging around. Their usual spots were actually clean. Many people forget the visible homeless crisis around 2016, but during this period, they mostly kept to themselves. Currently, some of the affected people just seem to be really aggressive, with no provocation, which is what's scaring people.
But really, the city's not that scary overall. More people returning to the city, will make it feel safer too. Maybe avoid the certain areas (but even then, most likely you will be fine). People read or hear the sensationalist stuff and make their own opinions without experiencing it themselves.
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u/simon0763 Mar 05 '23
I used to go to the city frequently 4-5 years ago, now when I go I definitely see a lot worse things more often than I did back then.
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u/1991Melbourne Mar 05 '23
And you know this ?
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u/cinnamonbrook Mar 05 '23
Probably because they have eyes? There was a literal shanty town in Flinders/Elizabeth back in 2016-2017, we aren't in the homeless invasion end times just because you saw a guy talking to himself.
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u/reyrial Mar 04 '23
Better than "what spider is this"
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Mar 05 '23
I'm just grateful the questions are on this sub and not r/ausfinance
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u/masofnos Mar 05 '23
Ausfinace is full of people's disillusioned ideas of how to bring interest rates back down instead
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u/Abject-Web-4580 Mar 05 '23
Peopleās attitudes in that sun scare me. Some of them Would sell their mothers.
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u/myabacus Mar 05 '23
Peopleās attitudes in that sun scare me.
I would start with the old reliable slip, slip, slap.
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u/2kan CBD Mar 05 '23
Glad to hear they're delusions. Loving these higher rates on my saving accounts.
Us lowly renters rarely get a win so it's nice to be get something for once.
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u/Marshy462 Mar 05 '23
Most posts are complaining about ford rangers or dodge rams
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u/Everyday_im_redditin Mar 05 '23
100% valid complaints. They need to introduce a tax on vehicle weight like some European countries have.
Remove some fuel tax and the EV tax, replace with this.
People in tiny cars pay very little, people in fuckoff Utes pay tens of thousands per year
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u/Marshy462 Mar 05 '23
Yeah watch those costs past on to consumers. They already bitch at the cost of tradespeople.
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u/sostopher Mar 05 '23
A van can carry more than a ute. No one needs an F-150 in Melbourne.
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u/Marshy462 Mar 06 '23
Not in weight it canāt. Plus the towing capabilities are rubbish. Try running a bricklaying company and loading trestles and scaffolding into a van and see how long your back lasts. Blanket comments like āno one needsā¦.ā are a pathetic attempt to push what you believe onto everyone else. You can apply that moronic view to housing. No one needs a 3 bedroom house in Melbourne. No one needs a car that accelerates really quickly.
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u/sostopher Mar 06 '23
The vast majority of owners of these yank tanks are not bricklayers or tow anything. Besides, an older Hilux has more bed space and towing capacity than a modern F-150. They're used as cars for the vast majority of their owners. I have never ever seen one with its bed full, and they're always pristine.
Has Melbourne changed much in the last 20 years that means we need utes this big? Did houses get bigger? Did groceries get bigger? Did the roads get worse so they need more clearance? Demographics haven't changed, just US legislation that makes it very profitable for US car makers to make these ridiculous things. The rate of pedestrian and cycling deaths in the US is consistent with increased sales of utes there. And it'll happen here too if we don't start thinking about safety.
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u/Marshy462 Mar 06 '23
Check your towing capacity stats on hiluxs. Small capacity 4cyl new diesels donāt pull like a v8. And Iām sure you know exactly what people do on their weekends and holidays and what equipment they tow. I see heaps of them around towing small excavators and bobcats, also with trade trailers, window deliveries etc. We have had f150s here since the 70s. The problem is partly to emission controls on new diesels. They recirculate exhaust gasses, carrying blow-by oil combined with particulates, to create a super sludge that blocks up the inlet manifold and ruins the engine. Not to mention costly repairs and hideously expensive particulate filters. Youāll probably find deaths increase with population.
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u/sostopher Mar 06 '23
Youāll probably find deaths increase with population.
It's per capita. So no.
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u/Marshy462 Mar 06 '23
People always have and always will die on the roads. If there are more utes on the road, then it makes sense that would be the vehicle involved. Same as if we had a majority or barinas on the road
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u/sostopher Mar 06 '23 edited Mar 06 '23
The rate is increasing, correlated with utes and SUVs becoming more popular. 80% of vehicles sold in the US last year were "trucks".
It stands to reason that if vehicles are getting larger and heavier then speeds should be decreased for safety. We don't want to see deaths increase on the roads where it's simply someone's ego that needs to be taken out of the equation. These are all preventable.
Like that hit in Brunswick last week which killed a pedestrian. Driver was in a Ford Ranger. I don't think the same result would have happened in a Barina.
I don't understand why you're arguing in favour of larger, less efficient vehicles when others that have been available for years and actually fit in car parks have been suitable for the stated uses of hauling and towing. I'm not saying outlaw utes, I'm saying restrictions should be imposed on their size, efficiency and emissions.
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u/JazzerBee Mar 06 '23
Ah yes. The bUdding Australian bricklaying industry was smothered in its crib for decades before these Yank Tanks arrived. How did we ever get on for decades before the massive pickups saved us and our poor bricklayers. We've had to build our houses out of Kangaroo hide and tin cans for so many years. Hooray for the Yank Tanks and their TOWING CAPABILITIES
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u/Marshy462 Mar 06 '23
What are you on about? We had v8 ford and Holden utes. They are finished now. So people purchase whatās on the market that suits their needs.
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u/JazzerBee Mar 06 '23
That's literally the point. If the tradies get less work because they've had to put up their prices, then it's an incentive to get a cheaper car. That's how taxes work.
There are literally dozens of other options for tradies that do the work just as good or better. Work vans for one, and smaller utes are much better suited to the cities where 95% of construction is anyway. If you truly need off road capabilities there are many utes to satisfy that don't weigh as much as an elephant. Hell, I've seen a professional tradie using a fucking Toyota Yaris. Loaded up with every tool imaginable and muddy as hell from loads of good use on building sites.
Those massive trucks are purely sold for ego and status, and to make the driver feel like they own the road. Some of the bonnets are higher than your average primary school child, how are you meant to drive that safely around schools?
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u/Marshy462 Mar 06 '23
Sigh. 95% of construction work is not in the city, itās in the suburbs. You seem to think you know what will suit tradespeople without really thinking. Vans suit some trades but canāt be cross utilised as a family vehicle. Itās cost inefficient and bad for the environment to have multiple vehicles. Your Yaris example is absolutely laughable. I bet that cowboy didnāt have a cargo barrier separating tools from the occupants. Love a battery drill or power saw launched at your head in an accident. Driving around schools is easy in any vehicle. Itās 40kmh, I manage to do it in an 18tonne truck every day. You need to stop biting your nails at other peoples vehicle choices, youāll get an ulcer.
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Mar 05 '23
If I only believed the posts on r/Melbourne, I'd never leave my flat. You'd think it was Helmand Province out there.
But when you go out, touch the grass and see the great outdoors, you realize things aren't that bad.
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u/propellerlead Mar 05 '23
Yep if you believed this sub everytime you step outside you would: - Get pushed off the road by an aggressive tradie in a Ford Raptor - Hit by a Soccer Mum in a SUV and left for dead - Stabbed by a crazed junkie on public transport
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u/fimojomo Mar 05 '23
don't forget Hit by two teens on an electric scooter on the footpath without helmets
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u/Taleya FLAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIR Mar 05 '23
Man i miss the days of dodgy lebanese tradies
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Mar 05 '23
Yeah these things only happened to me twice this week. No idea what people are complaining about.
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u/Eteiveth Mar 05 '23
I mean, thereās no reason not to believe these posts but obviously it doesnāt happen all the time to every person. It does happen often enough that you should be aware of your surrounding when out and about. Thatās about it though.
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u/F1NANCE It's winter and you're cold Mar 05 '23
The posts about the area on Elizabeth Street between Flinders Street and Collins Street are legit, particularly the atmosphere at night time.
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u/cinnamonbrook Mar 05 '23
I kind of always wondered why people in /r/melbourne talk about Sunshine like it's the Gaza strip but then I see comments like these and realise that so many of you are just ridiculously sheltered.
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u/KimiNoNaWa19 Mar 05 '23
Recently there's been 10s of thousands of people returning to the city, visiting the city and moving to the city and it's confronting for many to see just how bad it's gotten. So they post here about it.
Even still the posts seem to be lower in quantity than all the threads complaining about traffic, dog owners not picking up dog shit, carrotman photos, kids spelling out R-E-V-S, complaints about real estate agents and landlords, photos of Flinders St station. This sub just goes through a cycle of these topics which apparently people can't get enough of, everything else Melbourne related barely gets any attention or gets downvoted into oblivion for not fitting with the meta.
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u/melbbear ššš Mar 05 '23
R
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u/simbapiptomlittle Mar 05 '23
I can remember back in the day when all you had to avoid were the Hare Krishnaās. They were all mainly up and down Swanston st banging away on their drums and waving their tambourineās asking for money and shoving pamphlets in your face.
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u/SticksDiesel Mar 05 '23
I remember when I was a first year uni student one of them chatted to me, gave me a "free" book, told me how great and "free" the book was, then said I owed them a $10 "donation" for the book. 17 year old me paid.
Today I'd throw it at his feet and tell him to get fucked.
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u/myabacus Mar 05 '23
I got suckered into a Scientology IQ test, bait and switched with the personality quiz.
Complete dog shit, I still walked away with the Dienetics book, that I read about 3 pages of.
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u/simbapiptomlittle Mar 05 '23
Your so right about that. The books were never free. I handed mine back.
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u/RobGrey03 Mar 06 '23
Couldn't help but be reminded of I've got KRSNA riding shotgun on the stagecoach of my life...
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u/Ramzammer Mar 05 '23
This is purely the fault of the mods curating posts incorrectly. If I want to find a bank specific to Melbourne and get advice, I can't, because the post gets deleted and referred to a different generic post with no traffic.
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u/joshuavivas Mar 05 '23
those questions should be ask in the daily thread.
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u/Ramzammer Mar 05 '23
Nah. No one goes to the daily thread and other people might also have the same question.
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u/NoUseForALagwagon Mar 05 '23 edited Mar 05 '23
Although funding could undeniably be better, the reality is that Social Services and Mental Health Services have a commitment to help those that are At-Risk and are WILLING to receive help ahead of the people that are abusive to strangers and are actively hostile to psychological help.
If someone is in severe mental distress from overload, trauma, anxiety, depression, PTSD, etc... and reach out for help. They will receive it within 24 hours and get an assessment from a Crisis and Trauma Team who will stay until they calm down and work on a mental health plan. You will NOT be waiting for weeks or months. We are not in the US, where there has been active gutting of the already weak health system.
It's all well and good to look at a violent meth addict and feel sympathy for what they may or may not have went through; but if they aren't willing to accept help; then the reality is there is nothing more that can be done by the government or doctors. Someone with no history of violence who may or may not have experienced the same shit as the addict will receive more support because they have taken a first step to get better by seeking help.
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u/iamandrewpatterson Mar 05 '23
Wearing a black Kathmandu puffer and drinking coffee is out, getting stabbed at a rental inspection in a bad suburb while a helicopter flies suspiciously overhead is in
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u/Trustybeard Mar 05 '23
No, r/melborne has 3 types of posts. 1) are just about how shitty renting is, 2) photos highlighting the inability of Melbourians to park their car correctly and lastly 3)the obligatory " duh cookers are still protesting" posts (these posts appear on Saturday largely).
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u/greywarden133 >love a good bargain< Mar 05 '23
Have you tried contacting DFFH Housing Entry Point hotline for Emergency Housing? Let me tell you it is not an easy process and sometimes they literally donāt have the resources to provide temp housing for those people on the street. And as much as I donāt want to sound condescending but quite a few of the characters youāve seen on the street are also there by their own volitions due to a lack of engagement with services referred to them for whatever reasons (mental health, AOD, justice, etc). Remember social services are all voluntary and no one could force them into doing what they donāt want to do even though it is beneficial for their living arrangements.
So all in all, it is both the lack of funding and manpower from the public services sector combining with limited affordable housing options and the disengagement from the end users themselves that sort of created this perpetual cycle of disadvantages for homeless people and other vulnerable groups of people in our society. Unfortunately not a problem any of us can solve singlehandedly.
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Mar 05 '23 edited Mar 05 '23
Let's be honest, what tangible benefits are social services and psychological help going to be to someone without serious changes to their material environment?
You can put someone through all the therapy in the world, but after they finish their session they go home to boarding houses with open drug markets, bug infestations, internal politics between violent tenants etc.
I don't blame people for not seeking out the support services, I wouldn't want to be paternalized to eventually see no change in my living environment and economic status.
Any research on the topic indicates that inorder for rehabilitation and psychological help to be effective in regards to homelessness, there has to be serious considerations made in a person's material environment.
We barely even do the bare minimum for the most vulnerable and marginalised people in this city.
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u/greywarden133 >love a good bargain< Mar 05 '23
Oh dear boarding house and freaking SRS. Donāt even get me started on thoseā¦
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u/mangosquisher10 Mar 05 '23
I'm experiencing extreme stress at home due to a unique situation that slowly built up over time to the point where I'm experiencing 24/7 depersonalization. I've found living on my own to be the only thing to improve my mental health, and it does so considerably. I went to emergency housing and they actually told me it'd make my mental health worse, and to keep looking for a rental. I've considered living on the street until I find something lol.
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Mar 05 '23
It's tricky, I reccomend contacting every big charity - salvos, st Vincent's, brotherhood st Lawrence etc and finding out what support services they can offer in your situation. They may help refer you to government programs you may have not been familiar with, provide you with some time at hotels, food gift cards to help you save for a rental etc.
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u/Optikfade Mar 05 '23
It's because like every other Aus sub, it's become a cliquey parody of itself with not enough of a userbase to stop it. Go check out CarsAustralia, FinAus, AusRenovation to see what I mean.
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u/Bat-Human Mar 05 '23
Social services and every mental health service, public and private, are currently swamped for months in advance.
The state of the health system in Victoria is trashed. Get used to it and expect more crazies to come.
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u/KhanTheGray Mar 05 '23
āWhy canāt we get social services to do more to help?ā
Because social services are meant for support, they are auxiliary, they are not there to fix your life for you. No one does. You have to want to fix your life.
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u/Lelshetkidian Mar 05 '23
People just don't seem to get this. I think most who say that are operating under the assumption that everyone who finds themselves bashing strangers and groping women is actually just a normal person who got unlucky in life, and if they were given more support they would turn their life around. I don't think they even consider the possibility that some people don't want to be fixed, and will continue to do what they do for as long as the can.
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u/KhanTheGray Mar 05 '23
I deal with people from this demographics often, they tell me they are homeless, I try to make calls to find them a place to stay, they refuse to take up the offer because other homeless people live there. They want a place of their own. How is that gonna happen? Who is gonna give you a whole house with no rent, no bills to just live there by yourself?
Then you get beggars who want money for food, I bring them food I get yelled at, yeah ok what do you want? Money? Of course, so they can go and buy drugs and alcohol, and people feed this habit by giving them money out of pity, why would they get off the streets when they have this system going on?
There is a sikh temple that feeds everyone without discrimination, there are food trucks, not for profit organizations that cook for vulnerable people, and people bring food as well but you get yelled at.
Social services try to find jobs, they donāt show up to work, because they canāt get off drugs or booze or both, ok you are an addict fair enough, how about a rehabilitation centre? āNah, screw that.ā
Well, there is only so much other people can do for you mate, you have to help yourself first.
Every second day I come across these āwhere is social servicesā posts.
They are where they have always been. How about people start taking some responsibility for their actions to begin with?
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u/Lelshetkidian Mar 05 '23
I think the issue is people have a really hard time reconciling the fact that socioeconomic factors outside of people's control play a big part in things like homelessness and drug addiction, and the fact that people are capable of taking responsibility (to varying degrees) and improve their behaviour. Either way, the way people contort themselves into pretzels to excuse the behaviour of the literal scum of society, finding any reason to explain why these types act as horribly as they do, except of course, acknowledging that maybe they are just horrible people who are ALSO homeless drug addicts who had a rough life.
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u/Nova_Terra West Side Mar 05 '23
Thank you for saying this - my faith in this sub has been restored knowing that there is a silent minority of us who believe that everything and everyone can be fixed if given enough time or support.
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u/Saa213 Mar 05 '23
I think the level of homeless and mentally ill people within the CBD is a strong message that society is under strain. The rising cost of living is reaching a crisis point which puts further strain on an already struggling welfare system. Living a constructive, well-rounded life is hard slog, and for those that canāt hack it can easily fall into addiction and subsequent hardship. Work demands more for less, rent is reaching unaffordable levels. A lot of people on the breadline are struggling. If weāre not pushing for our tax dollars to be spent on good foundations such as access to healthcare, a well funded social services system, affordable (public) housing, and general adequate steps to ensure quality of living for all then I guess weāre a part of the problem..
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u/RepublicReady8500 Mar 05 '23
Why can't we get social services to do more to help
A lot of social services are inundated and understaffed, due to a confluence of factors.
If you are truly concerned about the mental health and wellbeing of those in your local community, and the fact local services are not appropriately resourced to support said individuals, my best suggestion is contacting your local politicians at a council, state and national level.
Another option if you have time, is to volunteer for said social services. Or donate essential items.
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u/redthreadzen Mar 05 '23 edited Mar 05 '23
There's always been a homeless population in Melbourne, and yes many of them do have mental health issues. But a homeless population on meth is A. Active, awake. moving around, and visable. B. Irratic, wound up and off their heads.
What would you have social services do? Only a very small percent of homeless people in melbourne want social services. For those that do need it, help it is available. There are several active outreach teams working in melbourne at any one time.
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u/Hnikuthr Mar 05 '23
From the post title I thought this was going to be about the cookers.
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Mar 05 '23
cookers
Speaking of cringe expressions that are overused on this sub...
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u/SticksDiesel Mar 05 '23
Not really an expression more a label that society at large has settled on. I've heard it on the ABC, seen it in ads and heard a lot of pollies use it.
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u/ruinawish banh mi banh mi Mar 05 '23
Found the cooker.
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Mar 05 '23
Good one champ - you got me there!
I'm vaccinated, but unlike some here it doesn't form a core part of my identity.
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u/yahooboy42069 Mar 05 '23
I just came from taking a holiday in Melbourne. The lack of homeless/street dwellers is actually rather alarming for a big city. The fact that there are ācomplaintsā about their overnumerousness (s/o to my countdown fam) is really pretty weird. Go to Tucson, AZ or Albuquerque, NM and have your mind blown.
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u/cheechcan Mar 05 '23
If youāre referring to the homeless there are more services for them in the CBD. They have every right one there as long as they arenāt hassling people
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u/twistycake Mar 05 '23
A bunch of homeless services are shutting down because the government is cutting their funding. Contrary to popular belief people don't just evaporate when they no longer have a permanent address, so they end up congregating in areas where it's easier to link with a support network, like the CBD.
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u/ElmoPeen Mar 05 '23
I remember the days when I could browse Ā© r/melbourne and only see a post every once in a while about the crazies in the EBD. Now when I browse I come across them everyday.
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u/Lamont-Cranston Mar 05 '23
Users have been posting about this for years, and the people have been common around the CBD ever since a bloke was stabbed to death at a camp in Enterprize Park which prompted everyone else to more noticable and safer areas.
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u/mefailreddit Mar 05 '23
I contacted social services and explained the situation, but the guy I spoke to was very dismissive and acted like I was wasting his time.
I tried to make him understand how bad the situation had become, but he said he doesn't really understand exactly what a sub-reddit is. And to never call him again.
So I guess every time a homeless person screaming is the only interesting thing that happens in someone's day, we will get another one of these posts. But maybe we just don't join in the pile-on of increasingly shitty comments they often inspire.
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u/Mikes005 Mar 05 '23
I think it's just one fo those subject waves we go through. For a long time you couldn't move for photos fo the sky, then it was photos of groceries. The current trend is CBD crazies. The next one will be babies that look like Peta Credlin.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Head_83 Mar 05 '23
If I'm not mistaken, the joke in OP's post has gone over literally everyone's head
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u/fraqtl Don't confuse being blunt with being rude Mar 07 '23
There are heaps, they are getting in the way of me being able to see all the unique posts about rentals.
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u/dilligaf6304 Mar 05 '23
A) disrespectful to call people struggling with homelessness, drug and alcohol issues, and/or mental illness ācraziesā
B) if services were easily and widely available and low cost or free at point of service people would be accessing them
C) which services do you expect to help? Funding for so many services has been progressively cut back in recent years.
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u/floralshortsleeva Mar 05 '23
They're clearly making of fun of the nature of the other post, which says 'maybe we can talk about it here and find ways to help', like the people that spend time on Reddit are going to be more helpful than actual orgs, social workers doing this work lol
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u/jett1406 Mar 05 '23
Wouldnāt want to be disrespectful to those screaming obscenities at little kids and people going about their day
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u/greywarden133 >love a good bargain< Mar 05 '23
Thatās ok. Kids gotta learn that people has their own struggles and that could be them one day to be honest. Also life isnāt fair and thereās no pot of gold at the end of the rainbows.
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Mar 05 '23
[deleted]
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u/Lelshetkidian Mar 05 '23
Do you think trauma is an acceptable reason to tolerate intolerable behaviour? Do you think that all those who experience significant trauma are forced by the laws of the universe to become anti-social scum?
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u/greywarden133 >love a good bargain< Mar 05 '23
Donāt know why you got downvoted when stating the facts. With that said I have to say most of available services for homelessness are on āfirst come first servedā basis and priorities are usually given to women and children so there is definitely a huge gap for male homelessness and AOD out there.
Also most of these services are voluntary so it kind of ties back to the willingness to engage from the disadvantaged. These short lapse of sensibility is usually unfortunately cut short by mental health issues, AOD and a multitude of other problems. So itās also difficult for services with limited staffs and resources to follow up with those people when they stopped engaging with the services.
Source: I am a NDIS Support Coordinator/Social Worker and occasionally Iād get some of my participants with psychosocial disabilities go AWOL on me only for them to resurface some time later either at emergency housing services or in jail. Very heartbroken but at this point Iāve accepted it to be part of my job to maintain their stability as long as it could last.
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u/Lelshetkidian Mar 05 '23
? Do you think these people weren't and aren't given services? They don't want to change, they don't care about society or themselves. Can't just throw money and time at a problem and hope it goes away. The people doing this aren't doing it because they are drug addicts, nearly all of whom are just good people going through hard times, they are doing it because they are vile, disgusting people.
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Mar 05 '23
What experience do you have in this field? People don't have access to support services, people don't even have access to food or shelter.
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u/Lelshetkidian Mar 05 '23
I am not a support worker, but I am a former addict and was close with those who were former meth addicts. Nearly all of them received great support from the gov, including access to psychologists and psychiatrists, beds for some, housing for others, food etc etc. Either way, it's beside the point. Where are all the starving methheads in Australia? Are the people on Elizabeth street representative of the median homeless person or drug addict? Or is it possible you are conflating good people with mental health or drug issues with anti-social sewage who suck our finite resources away from those who need it, despite having no intention of ever improving their behaviour? The particular people this thread is talking about aren't normal people who ended up here through bad luck, they are scum who will continue to do what they do, no matter how much support they are given. Bashing people, abusing women and harassing strangers isn't a homeless or addict issue, it's a scum issue.
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Mar 05 '23
[deleted]
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u/Lelshetkidian Mar 05 '23
First para - To be clear, I am not some retarded bootstrap conservative who denies the reality of the close correlation between ones socioeconomic outcomes/material conditions and their outcomes. I also want to be clear that I am NOT talking about drug addicts and the homeless, but the subset of this group who terrorize wider society, including other addicts. The former deserves empathy, the latter can get fucked. Capos were victims of the holocaust, but I have little sympathy for them due to their actions, despite their actions being influenced factors outside of their control. I also don't accept that constant anti-social behaviour by one is something that naturally occurs as a consequence of one's material conditions, but rather it is exposed by them. I will continue to call this subset scum, so as to differentiate them from the wider population of disadvantaged marginalized groups.
2nd - No disagreements
3rd- Overgeneralisation. Some psychs are useless, sure, but many of them are fantastic people who can help those who want to improve, but lack the ability to do so. Don't think it's fair to say that they would just throw SSRIs at them, antipsychotics would be more likely for most of them. It is a process for sure, but meth is more expensive than a GP appointment, and many psychs (including my own as I come from a disadvantaged group) waive fees for those that can't afford them.
4th - They would improve themselves because if they don't, their life will continue to get worse. I don't like the infantilizing of addicts/homeless as children incapable of making decisions in spite of their circumstances, speaking from my experience and the experiences of the millions of former addicts worldwide.
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Mar 05 '23
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u/Lelshetkidian Mar 05 '23
We are going in circles and I think we have more fundamental disagreements on human nature that inform our views. However I don't think it's fair to characterize my views as circular. Ongoing, violent anti-social behaviour is a necessary condition to be labelled as scum, but not a sufficient one. One premise I am operating on, that I believe to be reasonable as informed by both my subjective experience and more qualitative studies on the matter, is that while anti-social behaviour often results from poor conditions, most people in poor conditions (which includes mental health) do not exhibit anti-social behaviour. I also am operating on the premise that Australia provides more beneficial services to disadvantaged groups than nearly any other country in the world, but has more issues with belligerent anti-social behaviour amongst those who receive services than some countries with fewer services offered per capita and poorer conditions. Given that even those with severe mental health issues, poor conditions and limited access to services, on aggregate, do not bash, assault or harass people, I personally conclude (which is not objective) that those who exhibit anti-social behaviour, have the ability to not do so, and I would categorize those who make this decision, regardless of the underlying conditions that influence poor behaviour, as being scum, and so would many.
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Mar 06 '23
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u/Lelshetkidian Mar 06 '23
Ask a mentally ill Asian how much their country or family supported them. You are the ignorant one. Where are all their methheads?
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u/Taleya FLAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIR Mar 05 '23
Covid fucked a lot of people. So you have the anxiety-riddled freaking over increased exposure to mental health issues.
Both are caused by service support failures.
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u/MadameMonk Mar 05 '23
Sorry but I reckon itās a mistake to assume that āsomeone should do somethingā or āgovernment and religious services should helpā. Those services are on offer. No one can force people to take them, or to stick with the programs. You prefer as much autonomy as possible in your life, these crazies are the same. They likely want even more. Theyāve rejected ānormalā Melbourne life. Theyāre being antisocial on purpose. What makes you think someone would convince them otherwise? And we just donāt have laws that allow them to be locked up or moved on (and to where?). Sit and think how those laws would be written? Could you write them, and figure out how to enforce them, without ending up in a State that you wouldnāt want to live in yourself? Itās all very tricky. But a real issue, nonetheless.
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u/bugsy24781 Mar 05 '23
This post epitomises the mentality displayed by the mob on this subreddit.
Generally preaching tolerance, political correctness and acceptance yet happily using ācraziesā as an accepted term to describe what has been assumed āhomeless peopleā
Please feel free to downvote me to assert your dominance over ācraziesā and appease your superiority complexes.
Or even better; why not conjure up an ad hominem attack so you donāt have to question the issues raised?
Welcome to r/Melbourne I guess?
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u/Hambone4815 Mar 05 '23
I haven't been into the city in flippin ages because im not doin a flippin retardedly packed and sweaty replacement bus on the way there AND back.
Id only be going to get Burrito Man anyway and I can't justify the bus part of what should be a simple train ride for food.
But yeah... crazy people be in the city(realising my rant has much less to do with OP than it should have been)
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u/Hold-Administrative Mar 05 '23
We don't use that word. Do better. Be better
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u/Hambone4815 Mar 05 '23
Nope, makes sense to use the word retarded. Look up the etymology and definitions of the word. Be better, be less sensitive.
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u/Geo217 Mar 05 '23
We probably obsess over our cbd more than any other city in the world so its no surprise everyone wants to talk about it.
Even regular mainstream stories about office occupancy rates, you read twice as many stories about it compared to the Sydney cbd.
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u/MagicWideWazok Mar 05 '23
It seems about the same to me. Also ācraziesā sounds a bit judgmental to me. Donāt think about how many people develop dementia
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u/Lelshetkidian Mar 05 '23
probably a good idea to nip this shit in the bud sooner rather than later. IDC if the entire page is full of stories, something has to be done and if it isn't, the one's who will do something about it aren't going to be the types of people we would ever want in charge.
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u/Gr3mlins Mar 05 '23
Well the 2nd melbourne injecting room seems to be have shot down and not going ahead.
Its a place to inject drugs sure but its also a place to seek help.
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u/Bowies-on-the-moon Mar 05 '23
Youād have to be crazy to live anywhere else though (country Victoria excepted)
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u/MaryN6FBB110117 Northside Hipster Mar 05 '23
Yep, more posts about the crazies, fewer about junkies. The times they are a changing!
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u/Roh_Pete Mar 05 '23
I just wanna know when we can start complaining/supporting the Dan Andrews statue.
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u/Helpful_Map6510 Mar 05 '23
Unsurprisingly we're following the path set by many major cities in the US and not addressing the real issues in society which tend to produce the loonies falling through the cracks. Personally I expect the CBD to get a lot worse in coming years.
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u/Petrichoriam Mar 05 '23
"why can't we get social services to do more help"
..we're already swamped and burnt out and underpaid as it is. Plus the demographic is incredibly challenging to work with. I hate these general comments like it's easy to fix complex clients.
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u/Ilovewarhammerandgym Mar 06 '23
Work in a psych ward and it seems meth is becoming more and more the drug of choice so psychosis and psychotic episodes are increasing over say heroin or weed heads
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u/ComfortableIsland704 Mar 05 '23
Check out this sunset
Anyone hear a loud noise?
Look at this cringe WFH train poster